Castro: ‘Ours is a more just society and we believe in it’

Below is an excerpt from a television interview with Cuban President Fidel Castro, conducted in Havana by Robert MacNeil and televised on the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour in February 1985. The four-part interview, which was broadcast twice in the U.S., generated considerable debate and discussion. Castro’s defense of the Cuban Revolution made a positive impression on many people, and the effect of the interview helped undermine Washington’s anti-Cuba propaganda campaign. War and Crisis in the Americas, one of Pathfinder’s Books of the Month for February, contains this interview and others, along with speeches by Castro between December 1983 and March 1985. Copyright © 1985 by Pathfinder Press. Reprinted by permission.

MACNEIL: White House spokesman Larry Speakes said that one of the obstacles the Reagan administration sees to improved relations with Castro is what Speakes called violations of human rights in Cuba. I asked Castro about that.

CASTRO: What are the violations of human rights in Cuba? Tell me. Which ones? Invent one. Do we have disappeared people here? Look, if the United States —

MACNEIL: Well, let me give you an example of what he said. For instance, human rights organizations, like Amnesty International, estimate that you have up to 1,000 political prisoners still in your jails here. Do you have political prisoners still in jail in Cuba?

CASTRO: Yes, we have them. We have a few hundred political prisoners. Is that a violation of human rights?

MACNEIL: In democracies it is considered a violation of human rights to imprison somebody for his political beliefs.

CASTRO: I will give you an example. In Spain there are many Basque nationalists in prison. They’re not political prisoners? What are they? Because you also have to analyze what is a political prisoner and what is not a political prisoner. Now then, those who committed crimes during Batista’s time, did we have the right to put them on trial or not? Okay. Those who invaded Cuba through Playa Girón. Did we have the right to try them or not? Those who became CIA agents, those who placed bombs, those who brought about the deaths of peasants, workers, teachers. Do we have the right to bring them to trial or not? Those who, in agreement with a foreign power like the United States and backed by the United States and inspired by the United States, conspired in our country and who struggle and fight against our people in this revolution — because this revolution is not of a minority; this is a revolution of the overwhelming majority of people. What are these people? What are they? Political prisoners? Those who have infiltrated through our coasts, those who have been trained by the CIA to kill, to place bombs: Do we have the right to bring them to trial or not? Are they political prisoners? They’re something more than political prisoners. They’re traitors to the homeland.

MACNEIL: Is there anybody in jail simply because of his political beliefs — because he dissents from you politically?

CASTRO: No one is in prison because of either their political or religious beliefs. …

MACNEIL: May I raise a point? Your system, which you say works very well, it does presuppose that the leadership of the country, you, are always right, that you are infallible. Is that not so?

CASTRO: No, it does not presuppose that, because we are not as dogmatic as the church, although we have been dogmatic, and we have never preached a personality cult. You will not see a statue of me anywhere, nor a school with my name, nor a street, nor a little town, nor any type of personality cult because we have not taught our people to believe, but to think, to reason out. We have a people who think, not a people who believe, but rather who reason out, who think. And they might either agree or disagree with me. In general the overwhelming majority have agreed. Why? Because we have always been honest; we have always told them the truth. The people know that the government has never told them a lie. And I ask you to go to the world, tour the world, and go to the United States and ask if they can say what I can say, that I have never told a lie to the people. And these are the reasons why there is confidence. Not because I have become a statue or an idol but rather simply because of the fact that they trust me. And I have very, very few prerogatives in this country. I do not appoint ministers or vice-ministers or directors of ministries or ambassadors. I don’t appoint anybody, and that’s the way it is. We have a system, a system for the selection of cadre based on their capacity, etc. I have less power, 100 times less power than the president of the United States, who can even declare war and nuclear war.

MACNEIL: But doesn’t the system mean that the revolution is always right?

CASTRO: You, when you had your independence war you did not even free the slaves and yet you said you were a democratic country. For 150 years, you did not even allow the Black man to be part of a baseball team or a basketball team, to enter a club, to go to a white children’s school. And you said it was a democracy. None of those things exists here — neither racial discrimination nor discrimination due to sex. It is the most fair, egalitarian society there has ever been in this hemisphere. So we consider it to be superior to yours. But you believe that yours is the best without any discussion whatsoever. Although there might be multimillionaires and people barefoot begging in the streets, without any homes, people unemployed. And you believe it’s perfect, because you believe things.

I don’t think that type of society is perfect, really, I think that ours is better. We have defended it better. It is a more just society and we believe in it. Now, we make mistakes, but whenever we make a mistake we have the courage to explain it. We have the courage to admit it, to recognize it, acknowledge it, to criticize it. I believe that very few — that there are probably few people like the leaders of a revolution who are able to acknowledge their mistakes. And I first of all acknowledge it before myself because first of all I am more critical with myself than with anybody else. But I’m critical before my people, critical before the world, the U.S., everybody. Far from — but don’t worry. If this analysis had not been correct, the revolution would not be in power. The revolution would not be in power.

Related articles:
Havana book fair pays tribute to Fidel Castro’s leadership, example
Interest builds in joining May Day brigade to Cuba
Cuba’s internationalism was born with revolution

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