Vol. 73/No. 1      January 12, 2009

MARGARET WINTER: Mr. Barnes, I hand you the copies of the Constitution of the United States and the Declaration of Independence.

Does the Socialist Workers Party believe that their ideas are consistent with the philosophy underlying the United States Constitution?

JACK BARNES: Yes, in the sense that a republican form of government—in the sense of a rule of law, which has elected officials that govern—is the only possible basis for socialist democracy, for the extension of democracy, as counterposed to any authoritarian and totalitarian mode of functioning.

That philosophy is similar to the philosophy of those who held that in the writing of the Constitution… .

I am especially saying yes in the sense of taking the Constitution as amended with the Bill of Rights, with the thirteenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth amendments, the amendments on the franchise, on the poll tax and so forth, all of which substantially in our opinion democratize the Constitution. Some took mighty struggles. Three took a civil war of the most horrible kind to accomplish.

Without an extension of those conquests all talk about socialism is a mockery.

But the answer has to also be no in this sense. The Constitution was written with the philosophy which did not see a contradiction between the republican forms and checks and balances of the Constitution and chattel slavery for millions of human beings; for property requirements for the electorate; for the lack of franchise for more than half the population, female half, until the twentieth century; for no rights for the original native residents of the continent; the original absence of the Bill of Rights itself; the absence of even direct elections of senators; and a number of things like that.

But to that degree the philosophy is in contradiction completely with the philosophy of Marxism, which would define a workers’ and farmers’ republic, our concept of democracy, as being combined in a constitution which would be in contradiction to chattel slavery, property requirements, restrictions of franchise for any reason of sex or age or anything like that. It would also include the fact that the prerogatives of the largest property owners, the largest productive property owners, the owners of the big mines, mills, and factories would be subordinate to the development and extension of the democratic rights of the great majority of the citizenry.

In some ways maybe the Civil War is the best example of this—the blood that was necessary to eliminate chattel slavery and get the thirteenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth amendments. But the fact it took until 1964 to get the poll tax to be unconstitutional and 1965 to, by law, guarantee the franchise without any restrictions because of anything to do with color to the adult citizens of the American South—

JUDGE GRIESA: Look, I respect those views, you know. I mean we are really not here debating about slavery or anything like that and let’s bring this to a close.

BARNES: All right.

The yes and no can be indicated maybe in one other thing. That’s the evolution toward greater and greater concentration of executive power, which has been a tremendous change since the drafting of the Constitution and the original first ten amendments. We feel there is a growing contradiction from even the constitutional viewpoint—talking politically, not as a lawyer—between executive decision, orders, even up to a declaration of war and the total protections guaranteed by the amendments to the Constitution.

WINTER: Mr. Barnes, I hand you a copy of a book called Democracy and Revolution by George Novack put out by Pathfinder Press.

Does this book set forth the Socialist Workers Party’s views on the relationship of democracy, the Constitution, and socialism?

BARNES: Yes. In view of the questions of the court on this topic the last week, I tried to find a single book that was written and printed well before the litigation which captured the views of the Socialist Workers Party on the question of the Republican form of government, democracy, the Constitution, and how the fight in defense of democracy connects with the fight for socialism.

This is the single book that collects the views of the SWP on these questions, buttressed by our views on the rise of democracy going back to the first known examples I think in the rise of the republican form of government.

WINTER: We could offer [this book as evidence], your Honor.

GRIESA: Received.
 
 
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